Klovis redpills 1
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
Every country has the potential to adopt USA approach; civic nationalism, as Arus put it
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Sure. I got your point
Moein, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
Yes
Anatolii
But its a Greek name
Moein, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
U r Greek?
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Moein]
I'm Ukrainian. Nice to meet u)
Moein, [04.04.20 16:35]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
Nice me too
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:35]
[In reply to Arus]
The US was founded as an ethno-state. It was obvious for them. Founded by Anglos for WASP.
This ethnic nationalism derived into civic nationalism as they received more and more immigrants from Europe.
And this civic nationalism derived into universalism in the 1960s.
Civic nationalism is ALWAYS the first step to universalism.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:35]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Yep, and thats why civic nationalism is gold
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:36]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I'd rather support this monsieur🌝
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:38]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Surely. Though the First Republic had within itself, a certain level of European diversity that was maintained, at least in its fringes (such as Louisiana or most of the then Midwest). After the First Republic (post 1867 or so), integration and assimilation to the idea of Americanism became more and more common. At least this is the common opinion in US history.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:38]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Civic nationalism is ridiculous. It only ends up destroying the founding nation.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:39]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
It's not. Even when going full civnat, Americans were still very ethno-centred.
It was an Anglo-Saxon nation, but it mostly received Germans immigrants and Irish ones.
So even if they considered that this immigrants could assimilate to the nation (civnat) it was only because they had an collective ethnic background -> all Europeans
This was not a fully civnat ideology.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:41]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Under that view, the First Republic is around 1787-1860/1867. Second Republic is 1867-current
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:41]
[In reply to MartinS]
If there are inequalities among the fair opportunities to triumph in life depending on the ethnicity in which you are born, yes
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:41]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Yep. But you are talking only about USA case, while mr Aragonos talking about civnat in general. That's how I see it
Arus, [04.04.20 16:42]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
I'm partially agree with you in last point, that civic nationalism is way to universalism, but I disagree with point that USA was founded as Anglo ethno-state. Yea, british immigrants was a majority, but there were no religious monogenicity at all, and religion in that times was really matters.
Arus, [04.04.20 16:43]
But yes, USA is ethno-centred
Verrückte Stille, [04.04.20 16:44]
[In reply to ابو اليمان]
Can you explain why?
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:45]
[In reply to Arus]
There also was a French component to the early US, that I would term undeniable. Especially in the coastal southern areas and then later with the introduction of the Basse Louisiane.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:45]
[In reply to Arus]
"There was no [state] religion"
Blablabla.
It's like saying "oh yes France is multicultural because King Saint Louis of the XIInd century never said that blacks couldn't be french.
It was obvious. Both for Saint Louis. And for the Founding Father's of America.
It was obvious that France was for french.
And that the US was a Christian nation, particularly protestant, no matter if it was "puritan" or "Anabaptist".
It was obvious. That's why they didn't needed to write it down.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:46]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
What do you mean?
No, in principle is wrong, because it implies egalitarianism. The idea that any people can come to.your country and adopt your values and principles, and function as well as the founding racial stock is ludicrous. And that's civic nationalism: Suicide.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:46]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well the idea, was individual states and or colonies had control over these points. States differed in their outlook towards religion and language.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:46]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Absolutely. But french settlements in the US were always very secondary. Unlike in Canada or the Carribeans.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:48]
[In reply to MartinS]
No, egalitarism is worshipping equality. What I try to defend is worshipping effort and merit. And for that you have to make sure that every person has the opportunity to achieve great things. Through education system and self development promotion, for example
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:48]
[In reply to MartinS]
Only could work in a non-democratic regime, in my opinion.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:48]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
In Louisiana and South Carolina, it was not secondary. In SC it was mainly Huguenot and in Louisiana, the French percentage remained the majority of the state into the XX linguistically and currently remains the largest european group within the state. Not to mention Louisiana was founded in the 1812 constitution as a state of French, Castilian and English speakers.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:50]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Maybe, but there is nothing left of this legacy. Or almost.
Whereas Quebec, or even Vermont and Maine, has still some elements from the French influence.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:50]
[In reply to MartinS]
Or in a democratic one where everyone accepts some common values. But accepting common values its not about blood or ethnicity, its about culture. For example, a salafist culture doesnt fit well in US, and it provokes problems. But a person with the same ethnicity of that salafist, if not so extremist, can fit perfectly well to western values
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:50]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
So then when blacks don't are as successful as the rest of the population, you start giving them benefits and welfare?
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:51]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Vermont and Maine barely speak French. Louisiana in 2000 was still
20% or so Francophone. Even today, Louisiana is a member of the Francophone summit, Maine and Vermont are not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:51]
And that’s with rabid attacks upon the Francophone community in Louisiana during the XX century’s day the later XIX
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:52]
[In reply to MartinS]
Its not about give this to that ethnic group and this other to that another ethnic group. Its about providig more or less opportunities to any person, from childhood
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:52]
Louisiana is perhaps disliked though due to the levels of Africans it possesses
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:52]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
It's racial for the most part. Take a look at the USA, only whites are really right-wing. That's only one example...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:53]
[In reply to MartinS]
But being right wing is not mandatory to share US values, you know?
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:53]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Francophonie is bullshit.
I don't care if blacks of Louisiana or from Haiti or Zaïre are speaking french.
The only things that matter to my eyes are wether or not (1) it's populated by french descendants (2) it's heir to French culture and feel close to France.
I'm not a specialist of Louisiana, but as far as I know there are very few french descendants there. More blacks and Hispanics for example.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
35% of the state is if French descent. I would know...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:54]
US values are a big circle, and US rightist values are inside that circle, but dont encompass it fully
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:54]
Of*
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
But the USA does that. Every western country actually gives way more privileges to non-whites than whites. It doesn't work and it will never work.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh, so liberals and centrists are also in favor of the American ethno-state ?
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Theodoric]
This would mean, it is the largest percentage of the state of any european group
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
US values are right-wing, yes
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:55]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Do you have any source about this ? I would like to dig into this.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:55]
[In reply to Theodoric]
The only state in the US
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:55]
Where French is the majority euro descent
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:56]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There was a recent census report on European descent in the US that reported this. The percentage of French declines each decade due to immigration to Texas though
Rodrigo Alexandre, [04.04.20 16:56]
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Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:56]
I’m one of those ^
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:56]
[In reply to MartinS]
Precisely to cut the current gap in equality of opportunities, so the situation does not explode. If a given ethnicity is consistently more poor than another, it pays the way for a conflict
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:56]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Based
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
It surprises me though that Louisiana is not known. Disconcerting
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
You are proving my point there. That's why they shouldn't be there in the first place. They aren't compatible.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
I would say that America is civic nationalism state now.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Well civic nationalism is no nationalism at all. So it's not a nation anymore.
You spoke about "US VALUES". Name them please.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:58]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
And currently there are no equality of opportunities: Blacks and Hispanics have privileges over whites in the USA.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to MartinS]
I dont think so. What defines US values is freedom and tolerance. And only immigrants that dont respect this two things cause problems. That's what I try to mean
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to Theodoric]
I know well about Louisiana.
An ancestor of mine from Normandy established a settlement there in the XVIIIth century.
I know Napoleon sold it. And that's it.
For me Louisiana now is just a tropical state populated by half of blacks. And half of Hispanics. The few remaining Europeans are for most of them not caring about their french ascendance.
But it may be only cliché.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
USA was meant only for white people. It's in the Constitution.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to MartinS]
I will put you the example of the Surinamese black community in Netherlands. They are in netherlands, dont cause problems. Why? Coz they have had the opportunity to make a decent life. Imo, thats not the case in US, and thats why theres racial tension
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to MartinS]
And it was obvious back then. It was only thanks to Jewish subversion that it changed to this nightmare.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well, our definitions of single nation differ, my friend. Yours implies ethnicity, religion etc. Mine does not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There are not too many ‘Hispanics’ yet. Louisiana ha been shielded by much of this migration; a larger proportion was coming from Haiti, Vietnam and the Congo until relatively recently when Hondurans and other groups like this began to arrive.
And Louisiana has a long history after 1804, you should read the work on Louisiana history by Louisiana native Charles Gayarré (written around 1892, I believe).
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I don't know about them, but that's a rich country. I'm sure they've been very generous with their blacks...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to MartinS]
They have a positive discrimination that is still not enough, in many cases, to do a decent life. Unlike surinamese blacks in Netherlands, which personal development was accompanied enough by the Dutch state
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh. Then France is the US.
Because french values are also freedom and tolerance.
Oh and the UK too.
Oh and Germany too.
Oh, it looks like all the modern European nation define themselves as founded on"freedom and tolerance".
So, oh, apparently we all are Americans in the end. If we follow your definition.
Or maybe your definition is bullshit. And a nation is not founded on "values" but on a people, from which values will emerge as a way to organise the life of this people, and this people alone.
Civic nationalism is bullshit for this reason man : the definition you give of a nation is Only founded on values. And so this definition could be applied to tons of other nation.
If a definition can applies to more than one element, then it means this definition is not defining this one element, but instead defining a broader category in which this one element is.
So, I ask you again, is France American too ?
Or is your definition incorrect ?
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Well civic nationalism is no nationalism at all. So it's not a nation anymore.
You spoke about "US VALUES". Name them please.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:58]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
And currently there are no equality of opportunities: Blacks and Hispanics have privileges over whites in the USA.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to MartinS]
I dont think so. What defines US values is freedom and tolerance. And only immigrants that dont respect this two things cause problems. That's what I try to mean
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to Theodoric]
I know well about Louisiana.
An ancestor of mine from Normandy established a settlement there in the XVIIIth century.
I know Napoleon sold it. And that's it.
For me Louisiana now is just a tropical state populated by half of blacks. And half of Hispanics. The few remaining Europeans are for most of them not caring about their french ascendance.
But it may be only cliché.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
USA was meant only for white people. It's in the Constitution.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to MartinS]
I will put you the example of the Surinamese black community in Netherlands. They are in netherlands, dont cause problems. Why? Coz they have had the opportunity to make a decent life. Imo, thats not the case in US, and thats why theres racial tension
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to MartinS]
And it was obvious back then. It was only thanks to Jewish subversion that it changed to this nightmare.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well, our definitions of single nation differ, my friend. Yours implies ethnicity, religion etc. Mine does not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There are not too many ‘Hispanics’ yet. Louisiana ha been shielded by much of this migration; a larger proportion was coming from Haiti, Vietnam and the Congo until relatively recently when Hondurans and other groups like this began to arrive.
And Louisiana has a long history after 1804, you should read the work on Louisiana history by Louisiana native Charles Gayarré (written around 1892, I believe).
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I don't know about them, but that's a rich country. I'm sure they've been very generous with their blacks...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to MartinS]
They have a positive discrimination that is still not enough, in many cases, to do a decent life. Unlike surinamese blacks in Netherlands, which personal development was accompanied enough by the Dutch state
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh. Then France is the US.
Because french values are also freedom and tolerance.
Oh and the UK too.
Oh and Germany too.
Oh, it looks like all the modern European nation define themselves as founded on"freedom and tolerance".
So, oh, apparently we all are Americans in the end. If we follow your definition.
Or maybe your definition is bullshit. And a nation is not founded on "values" but on a people, from which values will emerge as a way to organise the life of this people, and this people alone.
Civic nationalism is bullshit for this reason man : the definition you give of a nation is Only founded on values. And so this definition could be applied to tons of other nation.
If a definition can applies to more than one element, then it means this definition is not defining this one element, but instead defining a broader category in which this one element is.
So, I ask you again, is France American too ?
Or is your definition incorrect ?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
But that's because you're choosing an artificial definition.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
This.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
Well, surely first white farmers werent much against using black slave labor
Even if they werent Jewish
Arus, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Based
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to MartinS]
In french we call this "ménager la chèvre et le choux".
Meaning you want to keep your cabbage, and your goat, even when knowing the later will eat the cabbage.
It means civnats want to protect nations, while keeping virtue signaling by not recognising the role of people-ethny.
That's why their explanation are dumb. They want to defend nation without defending races. And because nations are founded over races, this sounds dumb.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Using blacks as slaves is one thing. Making them citizens is another one.
By the way, very few white Americans owned slaves.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:07]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Exactly. It's ridiculous.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
You are right, I made a bold definition. I tried to say that a person from a different ethnicity will only cause problems if it does not respect freedom and tolerance values, or whether that person is poor, for example. But these factors have nothing to do with blood, nor religion, nor ethnicity
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
👌🏻
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to MartinS]
Which definition is not artificial? Every concept in social sciences is a social construction
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Are you saying that the US was diverse in a European sense? As in it was not necessarily an Anglo country solely?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
What do you think about IQ differences?
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:10]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Starting from end XIX century yes. And after 60-70s asian immigration more so
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Well civic nationalism is no nationalism at all. So it's not a nation anymore.
You spoke about "US VALUES". Name them please.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:58]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
And currently there are no equality of opportunities: Blacks and Hispanics have privileges over whites in the USA.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to MartinS]
I dont think so. What defines US values is freedom and tolerance. And only immigrants that dont respect this two things cause problems. That's what I try to mean
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to Theodoric]
I know well about Louisiana.
An ancestor of mine from Normandy established a settlement there in the XVIIIth century.
I know Napoleon sold it. And that's it.
For me Louisiana now is just a tropical state populated by half of blacks. And half of Hispanics. The few remaining Europeans are for most of them not caring about their french ascendance.
But it may be only cliché.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
USA was meant only for white people. It's in the Constitution.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to MartinS]
I will put you the example of the Surinamese black community in Netherlands. They are in netherlands, dont cause problems. Why? Coz they have had the opportunity to make a decent life. Imo, thats not the case in US, and thats why theres racial tension
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to MartinS]
And it was obvious back then. It was only thanks to Jewish subversion that it changed to this nightmare.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well, our definitions of single nation differ, my friend. Yours implies ethnicity, religion etc. Mine does not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There are not too many ‘Hispanics’ yet. Louisiana ha been shielded by much of this migration; a larger proportion was coming from Haiti, Vietnam and the Congo until relatively recently when Hondurans and other groups like this began to arrive.
And Louisiana has a long history after 1804, you should read the work on Louisiana history by Louisiana native Charles Gayarré (written around 1892, I believe).
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I don't know about them, but that's a rich country. I'm sure they've been very generous with their blacks...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to MartinS]
They have a positive discrimination that is still not enough, in many cases, to do a decent life. Unlike surinamese blacks in Netherlands, which personal development was accompanied enough by the Dutch state
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh. Then France is the US.
Because french values are also freedom and tolerance.
Oh and the UK too.
Oh and Germany too.
Oh, it looks like all the modern European nation define themselves as founded on"freedom and tolerance".
So, oh, apparently we all are Americans in the end. If we follow your definition.
Or maybe your definition is bullshit. And a nation is not founded on "values" but on a people, from which values will emerge as a way to organise the life of this people, and this people alone.
Civic nationalism is bullshit for this reason man : the definition you give of a nation is Only founded on values. And so this definition could be applied to tons of other nation.
If a definition can applies to more than one element, then it means this definition is not defining this one element, but instead defining a broader category in which this one element is.
So, I ask you again, is France American too ?
Or is your definition incorrect ?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
But that's because you're choosing an artificial definition.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
This.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
Well, surely first white farmers werent much against using black slave labor
Even if they werent Jewish
Arus, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Based
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to MartinS]
In french we call this "ménager la chèvre et le choux".
Meaning you want to keep your cabbage, and your goat, even when knowing the later will eat the cabbage.
It means civnats want to protect nations, while keeping virtue signaling by not recognising the role of people-ethny.
That's why their explanation are dumb. They want to defend nation without defending races. And because nations are founded over races, this sounds dumb.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Using blacks as slaves is one thing. Making them citizens is another one.
By the way, very few white Americans owned slaves.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:07]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Exactly. It's ridiculous.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
You are right, I made a bold definition. I tried to say that a person from a different ethnicity will only cause problems if it does not respect freedom and tolerance values, or whether that person is poor, for example. But these factors have nothing to do with blood, nor religion, nor ethnicity
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
👌🏻
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to MartinS]
Which definition is not artificial? Every concept in social sciences is a social construction
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Are you saying that the US was diverse in a European sense? As in it was not necessarily an Anglo country solely?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
What do you think about IQ differences?
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:10]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Starting from end XIX century yes. And after 60-70s asian immigration more so
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
So if I get your right, if 1 billions Indians are tolerant and love freedom, it means they are de facto Americans.
That's a strange conception of nation.
Let me give my definition.
Ethnicity is the condition sine qua none on which someone can become or not a citizen.
If you are of French ascendance you can claim french citizenship. (Condition sine qua none).
But you will be awarded french citizenship ONLY if you respect french values, culture, language and tradition.
That's my definition of nation.
Ethnos + culture and values.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Where did you get that idea from? The Frankfurt School? That's ridiculous too. Concepts have history. Nationalism comes from Nation, which was a racial concept since its inception.
Natriumx7, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to 🌼KapKay🌼]
Yup
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to MartinS]
That it is related to the genetics and to the environment that a person received
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Maybe for most of the US... Not all certainly.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:13]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Around 80% genetic.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:13]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Nation is not an abstraction. It's a community of destiny founded on blood.
I invite you to tell Irishmen that "Ireland is artificial".
Spoiler, it's not.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:14]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
The environment someone received is genetics mate.
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 17:14]
[In reply to Julius Marteau]
Saved)
🌼KapKay🌼, [04.04.20 17:14]
[In reply to MartinS]
Link to the proof
Paul Vandehond, [04.04.20 17:15]
[Forwarded from Katja katja gelbwesten🇩🇪🇳🇱🇧🇪🇫🇷🇦🇹]
[ Video ]
Rotterdam Metro. Leer. Mit paul Vandehond und Frieda van Peer 🇳🇱🥐
Guigz Manwe, [04.04.20 17:16]
Piero San Giorgio is not French but from Switzerland
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:17]
[In reply to 🌼KapKay🌼]
There are many studies with twins that prove it for instance. I don't have any links because I'm not really interested in that topic, but you should watch some Stefan Molyneux videos about it. He explains it all very well.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:17]
[In reply to 🌼KapKay🌼]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:18]
[In reply to Guigz Manwe]
You are absolutely right. He is even from Italian cantons I think.
However he is mostly known for his activities in France and in french language.
I edited the post tough.
Julius Marteau, [04.04.20 17:18]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
I had a huge collection but my hard drive died.
---------------------------------------
ꙅ|ɘƹbᴎiɘʞɿA, [05.04.20 18:08]
[Forwarded from British Movement - Scotland Awake]
“In proclaiming “Hitler was Right” I believe I was right in making race the basis of politics and in perceiving that democracy is death, right in standing for the unity of the folk community above class division, and in opposing race mixture and advocating race betterment (eugenics), right in fighting Communism, right in overthrowing the restrictive shackles of International Finance, right in treating agriculture as of basic importance for the nation and thus in assuring security and welfare to the peasantry and right in effectively caring for the health and social welfare and economic justice of the people.”
- Colin Jordan
🇬🇧 British Movement (http://www.britishmovement.info/) 🏴
NS Vanguard For The Future
T.me/BMScotlandAwake
ꙅ|ɘƹbᴎiɘʞɿA, [05.04.20 18:08]
[In reply to ꙅ|ɘƹbᴎiɘʞɿA]
"En proclamant "Hitler avait raison", je crois que j'ai eu raison de faire de la race la base de la politique et de percevoir que la démocratie est la mort, de défendre l'unité de la communauté populaire au-dessus de la division des classes, de m'opposer au mélange des races et de préconiser l'amélioration de la race (eugénisme), de lutter contre le communisme, de renverser les chaînes restrictives de la finance internationale, de considérer l'agriculture comme un élément fondamental de la nation et donc d'assurer la sécurité et le bien-être de la paysannerie, et de veiller efficacement à la santé, au bien-être social et à la justice économique du peuple."
- Colin Jordan"
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
Every country has the potential to adopt USA approach; civic nationalism, as Arus put it
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Sure. I got your point
Moein, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
Yes
Anatolii
But its a Greek name
Moein, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
U r Greek?
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:34]
[In reply to Moein]
I'm Ukrainian. Nice to meet u)
Moein, [04.04.20 16:35]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
Nice me too
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:35]
[In reply to Arus]
The US was founded as an ethno-state. It was obvious for them. Founded by Anglos for WASP.
This ethnic nationalism derived into civic nationalism as they received more and more immigrants from Europe.
And this civic nationalism derived into universalism in the 1960s.
Civic nationalism is ALWAYS the first step to universalism.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:35]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Yep, and thats why civic nationalism is gold
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:36]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I'd rather support this monsieur🌝
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:38]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Surely. Though the First Republic had within itself, a certain level of European diversity that was maintained, at least in its fringes (such as Louisiana or most of the then Midwest). After the First Republic (post 1867 or so), integration and assimilation to the idea of Americanism became more and more common. At least this is the common opinion in US history.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:38]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Civic nationalism is ridiculous. It only ends up destroying the founding nation.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:39]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
It's not. Even when going full civnat, Americans were still very ethno-centred.
It was an Anglo-Saxon nation, but it mostly received Germans immigrants and Irish ones.
So even if they considered that this immigrants could assimilate to the nation (civnat) it was only because they had an collective ethnic background -> all Europeans
This was not a fully civnat ideology.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:41]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Under that view, the First Republic is around 1787-1860/1867. Second Republic is 1867-current
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:41]
[In reply to MartinS]
If there are inequalities among the fair opportunities to triumph in life depending on the ethnicity in which you are born, yes
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 16:41]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Yep. But you are talking only about USA case, while mr Aragonos talking about civnat in general. That's how I see it
Arus, [04.04.20 16:42]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
I'm partially agree with you in last point, that civic nationalism is way to universalism, but I disagree with point that USA was founded as Anglo ethno-state. Yea, british immigrants was a majority, but there were no religious monogenicity at all, and religion in that times was really matters.
Arus, [04.04.20 16:43]
But yes, USA is ethno-centred
Verrückte Stille, [04.04.20 16:44]
[In reply to ابو اليمان]
Can you explain why?
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:45]
[In reply to Arus]
There also was a French component to the early US, that I would term undeniable. Especially in the coastal southern areas and then later with the introduction of the Basse Louisiane.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:45]
[In reply to Arus]
"There was no [state] religion"
Blablabla.
It's like saying "oh yes France is multicultural because King Saint Louis of the XIInd century never said that blacks couldn't be french.
It was obvious. Both for Saint Louis. And for the Founding Father's of America.
It was obvious that France was for french.
And that the US was a Christian nation, particularly protestant, no matter if it was "puritan" or "Anabaptist".
It was obvious. That's why they didn't needed to write it down.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:46]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
What do you mean?
No, in principle is wrong, because it implies egalitarianism. The idea that any people can come to.your country and adopt your values and principles, and function as well as the founding racial stock is ludicrous. And that's civic nationalism: Suicide.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:46]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well the idea, was individual states and or colonies had control over these points. States differed in their outlook towards religion and language.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:46]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Absolutely. But french settlements in the US were always very secondary. Unlike in Canada or the Carribeans.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:48]
[In reply to MartinS]
No, egalitarism is worshipping equality. What I try to defend is worshipping effort and merit. And for that you have to make sure that every person has the opportunity to achieve great things. Through education system and self development promotion, for example
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:48]
[In reply to MartinS]
Only could work in a non-democratic regime, in my opinion.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:48]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
In Louisiana and South Carolina, it was not secondary. In SC it was mainly Huguenot and in Louisiana, the French percentage remained the majority of the state into the XX linguistically and currently remains the largest european group within the state. Not to mention Louisiana was founded in the 1812 constitution as a state of French, Castilian and English speakers.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:50]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Maybe, but there is nothing left of this legacy. Or almost.
Whereas Quebec, or even Vermont and Maine, has still some elements from the French influence.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:50]
[In reply to MartinS]
Or in a democratic one where everyone accepts some common values. But accepting common values its not about blood or ethnicity, its about culture. For example, a salafist culture doesnt fit well in US, and it provokes problems. But a person with the same ethnicity of that salafist, if not so extremist, can fit perfectly well to western values
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:50]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
So then when blacks don't are as successful as the rest of the population, you start giving them benefits and welfare?
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:51]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Vermont and Maine barely speak French. Louisiana in 2000 was still
20% or so Francophone. Even today, Louisiana is a member of the Francophone summit, Maine and Vermont are not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:51]
And that’s with rabid attacks upon the Francophone community in Louisiana during the XX century’s day the later XIX
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:52]
[In reply to MartinS]
Its not about give this to that ethnic group and this other to that another ethnic group. Its about providig more or less opportunities to any person, from childhood
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:52]
Louisiana is perhaps disliked though due to the levels of Africans it possesses
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:52]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
It's racial for the most part. Take a look at the USA, only whites are really right-wing. That's only one example...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:53]
[In reply to MartinS]
But being right wing is not mandatory to share US values, you know?
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:53]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Francophonie is bullshit.
I don't care if blacks of Louisiana or from Haiti or Zaïre are speaking french.
The only things that matter to my eyes are wether or not (1) it's populated by french descendants (2) it's heir to French culture and feel close to France.
I'm not a specialist of Louisiana, but as far as I know there are very few french descendants there. More blacks and Hispanics for example.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
35% of the state is if French descent. I would know...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:54]
US values are a big circle, and US rightist values are inside that circle, but dont encompass it fully
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:54]
Of*
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
But the USA does that. Every western country actually gives way more privileges to non-whites than whites. It doesn't work and it will never work.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh, so liberals and centrists are also in favor of the American ethno-state ?
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Theodoric]
This would mean, it is the largest percentage of the state of any european group
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:54]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
US values are right-wing, yes
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:55]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Do you have any source about this ? I would like to dig into this.
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:55]
[In reply to Theodoric]
The only state in the US
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:55]
Where French is the majority euro descent
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:56]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There was a recent census report on European descent in the US that reported this. The percentage of French declines each decade due to immigration to Texas though
Rodrigo Alexandre, [04.04.20 16:56]
[Forwarded from Worth Fighting For]
[ Photo ]
Top pic is Pewdiepie (chad) with his wife , bottom pic is idubbbz (simp) with his girlfriend.
For those out of the loop idubbbz's girlfriend recently started posting nudes online on onlyfans and idubbb came out saying he is ok with it. (total simp) . Let me know what you guys think about this.
.
.
@worthfightingfor_telegram
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:56]
I’m one of those ^
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:56]
[In reply to MartinS]
Precisely to cut the current gap in equality of opportunities, so the situation does not explode. If a given ethnicity is consistently more poor than another, it pays the way for a conflict
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:56]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Based
Theodoric, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
It surprises me though that Louisiana is not known. Disconcerting
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
You are proving my point there. That's why they shouldn't be there in the first place. They aren't compatible.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
I would say that America is civic nationalism state now.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Well civic nationalism is no nationalism at all. So it's not a nation anymore.
You spoke about "US VALUES". Name them please.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:58]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
And currently there are no equality of opportunities: Blacks and Hispanics have privileges over whites in the USA.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to MartinS]
I dont think so. What defines US values is freedom and tolerance. And only immigrants that dont respect this two things cause problems. That's what I try to mean
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to Theodoric]
I know well about Louisiana.
An ancestor of mine from Normandy established a settlement there in the XVIIIth century.
I know Napoleon sold it. And that's it.
For me Louisiana now is just a tropical state populated by half of blacks. And half of Hispanics. The few remaining Europeans are for most of them not caring about their french ascendance.
But it may be only cliché.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
USA was meant only for white people. It's in the Constitution.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to MartinS]
I will put you the example of the Surinamese black community in Netherlands. They are in netherlands, dont cause problems. Why? Coz they have had the opportunity to make a decent life. Imo, thats not the case in US, and thats why theres racial tension
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to MartinS]
And it was obvious back then. It was only thanks to Jewish subversion that it changed to this nightmare.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well, our definitions of single nation differ, my friend. Yours implies ethnicity, religion etc. Mine does not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There are not too many ‘Hispanics’ yet. Louisiana ha been shielded by much of this migration; a larger proportion was coming from Haiti, Vietnam and the Congo until relatively recently when Hondurans and other groups like this began to arrive.
And Louisiana has a long history after 1804, you should read the work on Louisiana history by Louisiana native Charles Gayarré (written around 1892, I believe).
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I don't know about them, but that's a rich country. I'm sure they've been very generous with their blacks...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to MartinS]
They have a positive discrimination that is still not enough, in many cases, to do a decent life. Unlike surinamese blacks in Netherlands, which personal development was accompanied enough by the Dutch state
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh. Then France is the US.
Because french values are also freedom and tolerance.
Oh and the UK too.
Oh and Germany too.
Oh, it looks like all the modern European nation define themselves as founded on"freedom and tolerance".
So, oh, apparently we all are Americans in the end. If we follow your definition.
Or maybe your definition is bullshit. And a nation is not founded on "values" but on a people, from which values will emerge as a way to organise the life of this people, and this people alone.
Civic nationalism is bullshit for this reason man : the definition you give of a nation is Only founded on values. And so this definition could be applied to tons of other nation.
If a definition can applies to more than one element, then it means this definition is not defining this one element, but instead defining a broader category in which this one element is.
So, I ask you again, is France American too ?
Or is your definition incorrect ?
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Well civic nationalism is no nationalism at all. So it's not a nation anymore.
You spoke about "US VALUES". Name them please.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:58]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
And currently there are no equality of opportunities: Blacks and Hispanics have privileges over whites in the USA.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to MartinS]
I dont think so. What defines US values is freedom and tolerance. And only immigrants that dont respect this two things cause problems. That's what I try to mean
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to Theodoric]
I know well about Louisiana.
An ancestor of mine from Normandy established a settlement there in the XVIIIth century.
I know Napoleon sold it. And that's it.
For me Louisiana now is just a tropical state populated by half of blacks. And half of Hispanics. The few remaining Europeans are for most of them not caring about their french ascendance.
But it may be only cliché.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
USA was meant only for white people. It's in the Constitution.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to MartinS]
I will put you the example of the Surinamese black community in Netherlands. They are in netherlands, dont cause problems. Why? Coz they have had the opportunity to make a decent life. Imo, thats not the case in US, and thats why theres racial tension
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to MartinS]
And it was obvious back then. It was only thanks to Jewish subversion that it changed to this nightmare.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well, our definitions of single nation differ, my friend. Yours implies ethnicity, religion etc. Mine does not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There are not too many ‘Hispanics’ yet. Louisiana ha been shielded by much of this migration; a larger proportion was coming from Haiti, Vietnam and the Congo until relatively recently when Hondurans and other groups like this began to arrive.
And Louisiana has a long history after 1804, you should read the work on Louisiana history by Louisiana native Charles Gayarré (written around 1892, I believe).
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I don't know about them, but that's a rich country. I'm sure they've been very generous with their blacks...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to MartinS]
They have a positive discrimination that is still not enough, in many cases, to do a decent life. Unlike surinamese blacks in Netherlands, which personal development was accompanied enough by the Dutch state
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh. Then France is the US.
Because french values are also freedom and tolerance.
Oh and the UK too.
Oh and Germany too.
Oh, it looks like all the modern European nation define themselves as founded on"freedom and tolerance".
So, oh, apparently we all are Americans in the end. If we follow your definition.
Or maybe your definition is bullshit. And a nation is not founded on "values" but on a people, from which values will emerge as a way to organise the life of this people, and this people alone.
Civic nationalism is bullshit for this reason man : the definition you give of a nation is Only founded on values. And so this definition could be applied to tons of other nation.
If a definition can applies to more than one element, then it means this definition is not defining this one element, but instead defining a broader category in which this one element is.
So, I ask you again, is France American too ?
Or is your definition incorrect ?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
But that's because you're choosing an artificial definition.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
This.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
Well, surely first white farmers werent much against using black slave labor
Even if they werent Jewish
Arus, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Based
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to MartinS]
In french we call this "ménager la chèvre et le choux".
Meaning you want to keep your cabbage, and your goat, even when knowing the later will eat the cabbage.
It means civnats want to protect nations, while keeping virtue signaling by not recognising the role of people-ethny.
That's why their explanation are dumb. They want to defend nation without defending races. And because nations are founded over races, this sounds dumb.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Using blacks as slaves is one thing. Making them citizens is another one.
By the way, very few white Americans owned slaves.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:07]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Exactly. It's ridiculous.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
You are right, I made a bold definition. I tried to say that a person from a different ethnicity will only cause problems if it does not respect freedom and tolerance values, or whether that person is poor, for example. But these factors have nothing to do with blood, nor religion, nor ethnicity
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
👌🏻
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to MartinS]
Which definition is not artificial? Every concept in social sciences is a social construction
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Are you saying that the US was diverse in a European sense? As in it was not necessarily an Anglo country solely?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
What do you think about IQ differences?
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:10]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Starting from end XIX century yes. And after 60-70s asian immigration more so
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:57]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Well civic nationalism is no nationalism at all. So it's not a nation anymore.
You spoke about "US VALUES". Name them please.
MartinS, [04.04.20 16:58]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
And currently there are no equality of opportunities: Blacks and Hispanics have privileges over whites in the USA.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to MartinS]
I dont think so. What defines US values is freedom and tolerance. And only immigrants that dont respect this two things cause problems. That's what I try to mean
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 16:59]
[In reply to Theodoric]
I know well about Louisiana.
An ancestor of mine from Normandy established a settlement there in the XVIIIth century.
I know Napoleon sold it. And that's it.
For me Louisiana now is just a tropical state populated by half of blacks. And half of Hispanics. The few remaining Europeans are for most of them not caring about their french ascendance.
But it may be only cliché.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
USA was meant only for white people. It's in the Constitution.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:00]
[In reply to MartinS]
I will put you the example of the Surinamese black community in Netherlands. They are in netherlands, dont cause problems. Why? Coz they have had the opportunity to make a decent life. Imo, thats not the case in US, and thats why theres racial tension
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to MartinS]
And it was obvious back then. It was only thanks to Jewish subversion that it changed to this nightmare.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:01]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Well, our definitions of single nation differ, my friend. Yours implies ethnicity, religion etc. Mine does not
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
There are not too many ‘Hispanics’ yet. Louisiana ha been shielded by much of this migration; a larger proportion was coming from Haiti, Vietnam and the Congo until relatively recently when Hondurans and other groups like this began to arrive.
And Louisiana has a long history after 1804, you should read the work on Louisiana history by Louisiana native Charles Gayarré (written around 1892, I believe).
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:02]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
I don't know about them, but that's a rich country. I'm sure they've been very generous with their blacks...
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to MartinS]
They have a positive discrimination that is still not enough, in many cases, to do a decent life. Unlike surinamese blacks in Netherlands, which personal development was accompanied enough by the Dutch state
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Oh. Then France is the US.
Because french values are also freedom and tolerance.
Oh and the UK too.
Oh and Germany too.
Oh, it looks like all the modern European nation define themselves as founded on"freedom and tolerance".
So, oh, apparently we all are Americans in the end. If we follow your definition.
Or maybe your definition is bullshit. And a nation is not founded on "values" but on a people, from which values will emerge as a way to organise the life of this people, and this people alone.
Civic nationalism is bullshit for this reason man : the definition you give of a nation is Only founded on values. And so this definition could be applied to tons of other nation.
If a definition can applies to more than one element, then it means this definition is not defining this one element, but instead defining a broader category in which this one element is.
So, I ask you again, is France American too ?
Or is your definition incorrect ?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:03]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
But that's because you're choosing an artificial definition.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
This.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to MartinS]
Well, surely first white farmers werent much against using black slave labor
Even if they werent Jewish
Arus, [04.04.20 17:04]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Based
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to MartinS]
In french we call this "ménager la chèvre et le choux".
Meaning you want to keep your cabbage, and your goat, even when knowing the later will eat the cabbage.
It means civnats want to protect nations, while keeping virtue signaling by not recognising the role of people-ethny.
That's why their explanation are dumb. They want to defend nation without defending races. And because nations are founded over races, this sounds dumb.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:06]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Using blacks as slaves is one thing. Making them citizens is another one.
By the way, very few white Americans owned slaves.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:07]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
Exactly. It's ridiculous.
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
You are right, I made a bold definition. I tried to say that a person from a different ethnicity will only cause problems if it does not respect freedom and tolerance values, or whether that person is poor, for example. But these factors have nothing to do with blood, nor religion, nor ethnicity
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:08]
[In reply to KL0V1S Gallia Daily]
👌🏻
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to MartinS]
Which definition is not artificial? Every concept in social sciences is a social construction
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Are you saying that the US was diverse in a European sense? As in it was not necessarily an Anglo country solely?
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:09]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
What do you think about IQ differences?
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:10]
[In reply to Theodoric]
Starting from end XIX century yes. And after 60-70s asian immigration more so
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
So if I get your right, if 1 billions Indians are tolerant and love freedom, it means they are de facto Americans.
That's a strange conception of nation.
Let me give my definition.
Ethnicity is the condition sine qua none on which someone can become or not a citizen.
If you are of French ascendance you can claim french citizenship. (Condition sine qua none).
But you will be awarded french citizenship ONLY if you respect french values, culture, language and tradition.
That's my definition of nation.
Ethnos + culture and values.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Where did you get that idea from? The Frankfurt School? That's ridiculous too. Concepts have history. Nationalism comes from Nation, which was a racial concept since its inception.
Natriumx7, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to 🌼KapKay🌼]
Yup
Lo / aragonsos Trovador, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to MartinS]
That it is related to the genetics and to the environment that a person received
Theodoric, [04.04.20 17:12]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Maybe for most of the US... Not all certainly.
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:13]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Around 80% genetic.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:13]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
Nation is not an abstraction. It's a community of destiny founded on blood.
I invite you to tell Irishmen that "Ireland is artificial".
Spoiler, it's not.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:14]
[In reply to Lo / aragonsos Trovador]
The environment someone received is genetics mate.
Anatolii Parkhomchuk, [04.04.20 17:14]
[In reply to Julius Marteau]
Saved)
🌼KapKay🌼, [04.04.20 17:14]
[In reply to MartinS]
Link to the proof
Paul Vandehond, [04.04.20 17:15]
[Forwarded from Katja katja gelbwesten🇩🇪🇳🇱🇧🇪🇫🇷🇦🇹]
[ Video ]
Rotterdam Metro. Leer. Mit paul Vandehond und Frieda van Peer 🇳🇱🥐
Guigz Manwe, [04.04.20 17:16]
Piero San Giorgio is not French but from Switzerland
MartinS, [04.04.20 17:17]
[In reply to 🌼KapKay🌼]
There are many studies with twins that prove it for instance. I don't have any links because I'm not really interested in that topic, but you should watch some Stefan Molyneux videos about it. He explains it all very well.
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:17]
[In reply to 🌼KapKay🌼]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood
KL0V1S Gallia Daily, [04.04.20 17:18]
[In reply to Guigz Manwe]
You are absolutely right. He is even from Italian cantons I think.
However he is mostly known for his activities in France and in french language.
I edited the post tough.
Julius Marteau, [04.04.20 17:18]
[In reply to Anatolii Parkhomchuk]
I had a huge collection but my hard drive died.
---------------------------------------
ꙅ|ɘƹbᴎiɘʞɿA, [05.04.20 18:08]
[Forwarded from British Movement - Scotland Awake]
“In proclaiming “Hitler was Right” I believe I was right in making race the basis of politics and in perceiving that democracy is death, right in standing for the unity of the folk community above class division, and in opposing race mixture and advocating race betterment (eugenics), right in fighting Communism, right in overthrowing the restrictive shackles of International Finance, right in treating agriculture as of basic importance for the nation and thus in assuring security and welfare to the peasantry and right in effectively caring for the health and social welfare and economic justice of the people.”
- Colin Jordan
🇬🇧 British Movement (http://www.britishmovement.info/) 🏴
NS Vanguard For The Future
T.me/BMScotlandAwake
ꙅ|ɘƹbᴎiɘʞɿA, [05.04.20 18:08]
[In reply to ꙅ|ɘƹbᴎiɘʞɿA]
"En proclamant "Hitler avait raison", je crois que j'ai eu raison de faire de la race la base de la politique et de percevoir que la démocratie est la mort, de défendre l'unité de la communauté populaire au-dessus de la division des classes, de m'opposer au mélange des races et de préconiser l'amélioration de la race (eugénisme), de lutter contre le communisme, de renverser les chaînes restrictives de la finance internationale, de considérer l'agriculture comme un élément fondamental de la nation et donc d'assurer la sécurité et le bien-être de la paysannerie, et de veiller efficacement à la santé, au bien-être social et à la justice économique du peuple."
- Colin Jordan"
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