Nature et culture

Weird Hiker@87lbofbees

I don’t know why ppl think this kind of thing is an own. Environmentalists that get btfo by this type of argument are just as bad as the civtards. You really think there is a “natural essence” that is distinct from the “artificial”? Not necessary. I show you why

ofc man is both an outgrowth + a part of "nature". Technical systems are an outgrowth of man, and obey the same laws that natural systems obey. Ideas operate like viruses. Despite arcane qualities, economics are ultimately beholden to ecology. Cultures undergo natural selection.

People look at the natural world outside of man and "do" see differences, sure, because the rest of it isn't as much a product of man as a paved road may be. Our creations tend to be synchronized with our short life cycles, while geologic changes for example can occur over ages.

While the pace of change is sometimes faster, the systems that precede us are not as tranquil as we perceive them to be. The world is a churning ball of violence, destruction, and manic rejuvenation with no "moral path", it frequently wipes itself out to nearly the last organism.

Rapacious, mindless consumption is an ever present force. We do not represent some "evil" exception to the rule. The most disgusting favelas and oriental shitpile cities don't represent some kind of new demonic creation. This form of life has always existed. Just look at yeast.

Point of environmentalism isn't to preserve some "objective value in nature outside human needs" or other nonsense. It is an explicitly vital and human endeavor. It is the PROTECTION OF TERRITORY. We could min max the planet and support 200 billion "humans" like a factory farm...

... But do YOU want this? It might be "the right thing to do" to people who lie and claim to "value life" by exploding the human race into rat-slaves, but I personally have different ideas about what makes life worth living.

It means that you want to preserve the state of the world where YOU, a being of power, can thrive and exert your strength. It's not a guilt oriented prostration to an "earth mother" or whatever lefty fake environmentalists believe. It's not charity, it's you defending SPACE.

Technology and industrialism are a part of nature, just like the pine trees and mountains and bears and rivers. And we are gardeners, we prune the world to fit the needs of HIGHER life. We are gardeners, its just that the weeds in our garden are metal

La pilule rouge, [12.04.20 00:20]
En réponse à
@87lbofbees
Technical systems are not just an outgrowth of man. TechnoCapital is a collective production that has outgrown the original ideas of man. It's against the natural order (e.g an obsession with lifeless planets) and against the LIFE CULT. This is what calculating Marxists get wrong

Weird Hiker@87lbofbees
I agree that technical systems have escaped the control of man and are now in their own domain, but they still exist within the broader backdrop of natural processes. Viruses aren't really "life", and they propagate and evolve all the same.
if the technical system does go fully independent and can power itself, whatever form it takes might not be considered "life" but it is still a self propagating system and behaves as such. But yeah, we did create a demonic hell machine.

Supertramp@alpine_anacreon
10 avr.
Point well taken on how machines still rely on natural inputs and laws. The realm of numbers and mind-viruses does not, however. But as long as we can pull the plug (mayb not too long) it is dependent on human and natural factors.

Weird Hiker
@87lbofbees
im leaning towards agnostic on the mind virus and numbers part tbh, i just felt good enough to include it in the thred for flow. Finance is some weird shit. but ultimately I do think its majority contingent on material conditions. Maybe my mind will change tho

@mfckr_
Isn't this just a naturalistic fallacy

Weird Hiker
afaik naturalistic fallacy is something is inherently "good" because its natural, which is a fallacy deep ecologists can generally be accused of.